XTC Back Porch

Jeff Truzzi

Colin's tunes sound underproduced and under-arranged on these two albums,
compared to Andy's.

It sounds to me like the production and arrangements of Colin's songs on AV1 and Wasp Star really suffer from the absence of Dave as a full band member. They sound like afterthoughts compared to Andy's tunes, whereas on every other XTC album from Drums & Wires through Nonsuch Colin's songs are every bit as thought out and muscular (arranged and produced) as Andy's tunes are.

Why are there no real orchestral instruments on Colin's AV1 tunes?
Colin gets the Proteus synth brass and Andy gets the real thing.

I know Dave spent as much time and effort on Colin's songs as Andy's.
And Colin has said that he (Colin) contributed a lot more to Andy's songs than Andy did to his.

I hear plenty of outstanding Colin bass lines and backing vocals on Andy's tunes.
But I don't hear Andy doing any distinctive playing or even singing backings on Colin's.

Anyone else agree?
What do you think?

paranoid android · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:

I would have to agree totally - and I'd venture a guess that this was a bone of contention between Andy and Colin.

I'm also thinking that 2 of Col's tunes on Nonsuch (War Dance & Bungalow) were given relatively less attention during production.

I do like these substance-based xtc questions, I must say!

image posted by SM

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Mr Tein · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject:

I am sure I read somewhere that Bunglaow is one of Andy's favourite Colin songs. Maybe with Andy its like children. I love mine to death and would do anything for them - my investment in other peoples though is minimal.

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paranoid android · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject:

Mr Tein wrote:

I am sure I read somewhere that Bunglaow is one of Andy's favourite Colin songs.

'tis true, Sir - I have read this also!

Still, the production on Bungalow is rather basic - bass, drums, synths, etc - even the 'male voice choir' effect is, for the most part, a sample!

Apparently Colin's demo is much better?

Maybe XTC should have allowed Dave to contribute 1 track per album, (Like Ringo!) and Colin (like George) to contribute 2 or more, in order to keep the spirits up, as it were, so to speak!

I do realise that the make-up of an album should be an aesthetic decision, but this worked for The Beatles to an extent. (even if Ringo's tracks marred The White Album, and George wanted more than a token track or two!)

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Jeff Truzzi · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

Mr Tein wrote:

I am sure I read somewhere that Bunglaow is one of Andy's favourite Colin songs. Maybe with Andy its like children. I love mine to death and would do anything for them - my investment in other peoples though is minimal.

Isn't it more like asking your pal to watch your kids while refusing to watch his?

paranoid android wrote:

Maybe XTC should have allowed Dave to contribute 1 track per album, (Like Ringo!) and Colin (like George) to contribute 2 or more, in order to keep the spirits up, as it were, so to speak!

I do realise that the make-up of an album should be an aesthetic decision, but this worked for The Beatles to an extent. (even if Ringo's tracks marred The White Album, and George wanted more than a token track or two!)

I thought it had more to do with volume of output more than anything, Dave not being a songwriter and Colin writing 2 songs for Andy's 10.

I understand that Todd picking so many of Colin's tunes for "Skylarking" (out of 3 album's worth of demos) didn't go down well with Andy...among other things.

Spastic Minnow · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:

I like Colin, I do, but I have to say I don't think he put in as much effort as Andy did.

Listen to the Homegrown/Homespun demos and the couple that show on CoMC, Andy's are very fleshed out and in production they can get even better. Colin's are very basic and do need someone like Dave or a more involved producer to bring them out more. (Andy says they like Engineerer type producers, but I wonder if Colin needs one that gives more input).

To Colin, Dave is probably a safe collaborator but Andy would come off as interfering.

I get the idea that Andy has always felt he had to tred lightly with Colin. Colin doesn't write as much but Andy wants to be friendly and make sure he stays happy- so yes, Colin has contributed more to Andy's songs but that's because he purposely left bass lines basic or completely out of the demos so preserve a feeling of collaboration. ( I think he mentioned this in the FW liner notes) Is there any proof that Colin has ever invited Andy to collaborate?

From Andy's bass work on the Duke's albums we certainly know Andy can produce excellent bass lines if he wants.

But in AV1 and WS Colin doesn't get Dave as collaborator, he has Andy not wanting to interfere and basically I just don't think Colin has been into the music thing so much since they had went on strike. 5 songs in almost ten years? and the only other demo of the period I know of is the paltry, short and unfinished "Mates."

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Spastic Minnow · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:

paranoid android wrote:

Maybe XTC should have allowed Dave to contribute 1 track per album, (Like Ringo!) and Colin (like George) to contribute 2 or more, in order to keep the spirits up, as it were, so to speak!

I do realise that the make-up of an album should be an aesthetic decision, but this worked for The Beatles to an extent. (even if Ringo's tracks marred The White Album, and George wanted more than a token track or two!)

I don't think it's as much of a question of allowing Colin or Dave to get more songs on the album. Andy just naturally writes a hell of a lot more and I don't know of any evidence that Dave has ever wanted to do more than arrange. Even after leaving the band there's no evidence he's ever attempted to write his own stuff. There's the Remoulds album of covers he made for friends that got out in the fan community and he's been an active session player, but nothing more, right?

I think they would have had to FORCE Dave to write songs or even sing lead on something. And in the early days the Virgin Management certainly tried to get Colin "the hitmaker" to write more but it's always remained an Andy-heavy band.

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Mr Tein · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject:

Jeff Truzzi wrote:

Mr Tein wrote:

I am sure I read somewhere that Bunglaow is one of Andy's favourite Colin songs. Maybe with Andy its like children. I love mine to death and would do anything for them - my investment in other peoples though is minimal.

Isn't it more like asking your pal to watch your kids while refusing to watch his?

[/quote]

no not really some people are team players. I think Dave is. others arent. If Dave and Colin wrote all the songs and asked Andy to help embellish them he would have fucked off. Cos I dont see Andy as a "I will do anything as long as its good for the team." sort of guy.

But hey what the F do I know about these guys and how they work and think. I just love their stuff

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paranoid android · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

"I was disappointed because I wasn't contributing any songs of my own. I had thought that when I joined that I would be writing" [Dave Gregory, Song Stories, p.93]

ok, so this is Dave talking in '98 about the Black Sea sessions, but this would suggest that Dave did want to write.

Also, Dave apparently wrote the fab middle section to Colin's 'Blame the Weather', but wasn't credited - isn't it the case that Dave is peeved with Colin, because he believes that his contribution to many of Colin's songs deserved a songwriting credit?

Also, remember the placid, mild-mannered Mr Gregory saying 'maybe you should so a solo album'! The reason? Andy was complaining about some of his songs being voted out of the Apple-Venus sessions!

And, Barry Andrews left because most of his songs were left off of Go 2!

Andy is a God to me, and I worship the man utterly, but I think it musta been hard for Colin & Dave at times - sorry!

Al.x

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Jeff Truzzi · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject:

This isn't an Andy bashing thread.
But it's the kind of thread I'm sure Andy particularly hates -
speculating on the inner dynamics of XTC.

What the fuck - we're not talkin' about Obama here.

Andy has indeed written some great bass lines (like Mayor of Simpleton) -
for HIS songs.

The only Andy parts on a Colin song that really comes to mind
are the lead guitar breaks and bridge backing vocals on "Nigel" -
both of which are outstanding by the way.

donavan · Apple Venus Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 1751

Jeff Truzzi wrote:

What the fuck - we're not talkin' about Obama here.

Barack in the USSR.

AnotherSatellite · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:

I would love to read comments/responses by Per and Tall Wall.

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donavan · Apple Venus Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 1751

AnotherSatellite wrote:

I would love to read comments/responses by Per and Tall Wall.

Ahh smashing. I'm sure they are thinking about you too AS Wink

AnotherSatellite · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject:

Settle down. I just want to hear all aspekts.

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Jeff Truzzi · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject:

donavan wrote:

Jeff Truzzi wrote:

What the fuck - we're not talkin' about Obama here.

Barack in the USSR.

He may be lucky but don't call him "boy."